Sunday, 09 November 2008
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Why I left the Mennonite Church, Part 3b.
To any dissatisfied young Mennonites reading this who might be thinking about leaving...1. As long as you're a Menno, either follow the rules, or look like you're following the rules when those who are older and/or more conservative are around. Yes, you might be openly planning on leaving the MC. And yes, some of the rules are impractical, outdated, obsolete, and a major pain in the rear. Believe me, I've been there.
But rules or no rules, one of your end goals in leaving should be this: you want to leave in such a way that you can come back to visit in the future without feeling the slightest bit uncomfortable...It may not be completely reachable, but it's what you should be aiming for. If you have a reputation amongst the conservatives as rebel, that goes a long way in the wrong direction.
So maybe you wear shorts when you're playing basketball. Maybe you go to the movie theater occasionally instead of waiting 3 months for the DVD to come out. Maybe you don't follow every rule to the letter. And that's ok. And while it's one thing to joke about it with your friends who feel the same way you do, it's another thing to offend your elders. Although they *might* be old, stubborn, and stuck in their ways, usually they have watched over you as you've grown up and really do love you. And that's not something you want to throw away.
All this to say...if you're going to leave, make sure you don't burn your bridges when you go.
2. Try to have some idea of what you want in a church before you leave. It's easy to say what you don't want...you're probably thinking you don't want rules like the ones you grew up with, which is understandable. But what do you want? Just because a church isn't Mennonite doesn't mean it can't still annoy the crap out of you. Just because a church appears really cool after going there once doesn't mean it's right for you.
I church-shopped for quite awhile. You probably will too. It's like dating. You don't commit to the first one on the first date...you look around, you evaluate, you decided what you can live with and what you can't. You always keep your eyes open. If someone recommends a church, you check it out. And once you find a church you think you can live with, you start going there steady, every Sunday.
And go to church regularly, even if it isn't to the same church every time. If you're like me, you need the social and spiritual interaction that comes with. And no you won't always feel like going. And yes you should go anyway. I've been there, believe me.
And if you want to know what I think you should look for in a church, see this post from a few months ago.
3. If you believe strongly that women should wear a covering, then you should probably stay Mennonite, no matter how you feel about any of the other rules. The covering is just not something you find anywhere else, and you won't find a spouse who believes the same way you do if you look outside the MC. (But if you already have a spouse and you both want to leave and you both believe in the covering, then I guess you could maybe disregard this.)
There are other teachings unique to the Mennonite church, but this is the only one I can think that might be a dealbreaker. Believing strongly in something like nonresistance just doesn't have the same effect. (FWIW, I'm still a pretty big believer in nonresistance)
4. It's okay to be open about how you're planning to leave, but trust me, your life will a be a lot easier if certain people don't find out until after the fact. Been there, seen that.
So be a little bit careful who you tell.Also, being open that you're leaving is okay, but being open about leaving doesn't mean that you have to have an attitude. Like I said earlier, you don't want to burn your bridges, and a showing a nasty attitude toward the MC is a good way to do just that.
5. After you've left and found a church you like, be careful how you talk about it when your old Mennonite friends ask...basically, say whatever you want about your church, just don't compare it spiritually with the MC unless they specifically ask. It doesn't leave a very good impression. Yes, you want to say why you like your church. What you don't want to do is to turn it into a spiritual sales pitch.
6. I would love to write a piece on introducing your girl/boy friend to your Mennonite friends and family and getting her acquainted with your background...but unfortunately, I have no experience here as of yet. Sorry.
That's everything I can think of...I guess that brings this series to a close. Thoughts? Comments? Questions?
P.S. Heads up to starrsoft and anyone else who might have been wondering: I don't feel like doing more than 1 response, so I'm just going to wait a few days, then write one response in this post, in regard to the questions and comments in this post, Part 3a, and the ones in Part 2 I haven't covered yet.
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Comments (8)
I've read with interest this string of posts since many of the young people in the Mennonite church I am a member of have left, are leaving or are seriously considering leaving. I appreciate what you said about not burning bridges. When young people turn their backs on a large portion of what they've been taught and ignore the counsel of parents and older men and women who have watched them grow up and really want what's best for them, they lose out in the long run. Even if we don't agree with all the old irrelevant "rules", we need to accept the wisdom that comes with years and keep that communication line open. I personally don't think that anyone who professes to be a Christian should ostracize or completely ignore a fellow Christian especially a blood-relative just because they are part of a different man-made denomination. We don't find "unity" in the Mennonite church or any other church. We find it in the person and work of Jesus Christ. All you have to do is go to a country where Christians are persecuted. Denominational lines tend to fade away as the REAL Christians are easier to find.
A note on headcoverings: if you believe in the headcovering, Mennonites are by far not the only Christian group out there that believes in this requirement. Off the top of my head I can name a minority of Baptists, I would venture to say all Charity/Remnant type groups, various Eastern European Protestant groups, and quite a number of additional groups who would for the most part identifiy fairly closely with Anabaptist ideas and practices.
God Bless You Matt, as you seek His will for your life, outside the Mennonite church at this time!
~Josh Champagne
PS I should add that I was not raised in a Mennonite church and so have far fewer ties in the cultural/social spectrum than you have. I joined a Mennonite church in the same way that one might join a Baptist church or a Methodist church, or any other denomination out there in one's search for Christian fellowship and brotherhood.
Hm, too bad i didn't have this advice a year ago.
Why I left the Mennonite church, the epilogue or appendix or something of that nature.
This will be my final response...you can find the comments I'm referencing on my last three posts, and I don't plan to respond to any more comments on regarding this topic.
First off, let me just say that yes, I know I sounded somewhat postmodernist. The truth is, I'm like everyother Christian, trying to find that high road between legalism and liberalism...and when a person moves away from one, he or she will be moving toward the other somewhat. Hopefully not so far as to fall into the other ditch, but moving that direction nonetheless. So moving away from legalism (what was legalism for me, anyway) meant I was going to be moving somewhat toward liberalism.
For someone who becomes a Christian as an adult, the process often works the same way, only in reverse, moving from liberalism toward legalism and trying to find that high road in the middle.
Starrsoft asked for my responses to his comments, which you can find in part 2. I tried to quote the most relevant parts here, but go to part 2 if you want to see the full comments.
1. I would echo the concerns stated about your "general principles" idea. I have not found this to be a concept expressed in the NT, though I would be eager to examine it if you can point the way. Yes, we are under the spirit of the law, not the letter, but 99% of the time that makes our responsibility greater, not less....
Agreed. But I guess my overall point is, I don't see how some of the specific commands given in the NT fulfill the spirit of the law in the lives of people today, 2000 years after they were written.
I'm sure you disagree with me on this one, and that's fine. And if I'm reading your points correctly, you would say that the specific commands of the NT always fulfill (atleast partially) the the spirit of the law, no matter the time, place, or culture.
Ultimately, I think our conclusions are both the logical result of our initial assumption, in regards to whether the specific commands always fulfill the spirit of the law.
2. I'm not sure how to respond to your second point, because that too is kind of a matter of perspective...especially the last part.
I've always thought that externals might be able to stifle me if I grew up in an Amish church, but God gave lie to even that thought as I have a good Amish friend who is a born again believer, vibrant spiritually (probably more so than you or me), and is going to Bangladesh* tomorrow to share the great news.
Which, depending on how a person reads this, could kind of prove my point...you felt like you would be stifled in an Amish church. Your Amish friend, on the other hand is living a vibrant Christian life as an Amishman. He's thriving in a setting where you would feel stifled, and what would be legalism for you is a normal way of life for him...that's how I'm seeing it. So if I'm reading this wrong feel free to correct me.
*Side note, just because I'm curious: I've always heard that Amish don't ride in airplanes...so is he a more liberal Amishman, or if not how does he plan to get to Bangladesh?
(I realize you also wrote some points regarding divorce, but I've written about divorce twice already and I feel like another response on that would simply be beating a dead horse)
3. lonnasjoy asked about accountability...accountability is something comes from relationship. And ultimately, the things we really need accountability for are the things that rules can't cover or won't make any difference for. A church can make as many rules as it wants regarding dealing with lust, gossip, or whatever, and it won't make any difference to people who actually struggle with such things.
There is no way rules can cover every possible avenue of temptation...which means using rules as a means of accountability just plain won't work. I've been there.
What works with accountability is when you have someone who's been there before, knows what it's like, can give a listening ear (does this sound familiar yet?) and can give you sound advice regarding whatever it is you're struggling with. I've been here too.
Just for for the record, I'm going to rank in order the factors that led to my decision to leave, with 1 being the biggest.
1. A general sense of hopelessness regarding change. I could write more, but I don't know who all reads this blog. Suffice it to say, there were some things that happened in the past few years that showed me that change within a reasonable time frame was all but impossible.
2. A lack of eligible Mennonite girls in Oregon. And as you probably know by now, long distance relationships don't appeal to me in the slightest.
3. The doctrinal issues I referenced in part 2.
4. I was confronted several times regarding rules, but only one of those confrontations actually made any difference in my decision. The others occurred within a few months of when I actually left, and by that time the decision had already been made.
Those pretty much cover it. Relationships and connectedness were not/are not issues for me, and as far as I know I left on good terms with everyone I know in the MC.
Like I said at the beginning, I'm not going to be responding to any more comments on this topic. But if you still have something you want my response on, feel free to message me.
Thanks for your visit today. I appreciate that.
I was not a church goer until 13. I started going when my dad died. I asked mom where dad went to church. She indicated Methodist, so I just walked down to the Methodist Church.
My wife and I married Methodist. Then after 10 years of marriage my new job resulted in us moving 20 times in 40 years. We went to church on every move and went to many different kinds of churches.
We just slowly over time realized that it did not matter much were you went. I feel like Norma and I got Spiritually Homogenized. I am not sure what I am anymore, except I love the Lord and His Word.
Thanks for sharing, I used to read Mennonite authors and liked them.
Blessings
frank
I suppose there has always been and always will be the tensions you describe. Just for the record, during my years of living outside the Mennonite community due to my educational pursuits, I had some strong thoughts and feelings and at one point I doubted that I would ever return to the Mennonite community for some of the same reasons you cite, although at that time I still had "official" ties with a particular Mennonite church. However, I have returned to the Mennonite community and I am glad to be here. One thing I have learned in real life is that the problems one finds within the Mennonite church are pretty rampant in other settings, too, both within church settings and outside of the church, too. God calls me to minister wherever it is He calls me with its inevitable mix of various opinions and dogmatic opinions along with some very gracious and giving people. Perhaps an error I have made at times is in assessing pros and cons according to how it fit my perceived needs rather than seeking God's face for His call on my life and in giving to others out of His blessings to me. No matter where you are, there is never any substitute for pursuing a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I have done poorly, much of my life, in doing this and taking the time to stop and be quiet and listen for the voice of God speaking to me.
God be with you. Miss
It has been very interesting following your menno posts. I also find some of the responses from your readers quite sad/humurous/interesting You may find it of interest to know that we are right in the middle of this issue right now in our own lives. So much has happened and after months of wrestling,searching and praying for wisdom we made the decision to leave.
Quite an interesting perspective... I would agree with you for the most part. It did make me smile when you said that if we still believe strongly in the women veiling it would be best to just stay in the Mennonite church. Our family believes very strongly in the necessity of the veiling, but we left the Mennonite church about 10 years ago. We are not mennonites, but we wear the veiling.. that's how our whole church group is. Even though we only have a small fellowship, I know of several families that are not Mennonites, but still veil. So, yeah, we do exist. lol.
Great post, tho'... keep it up!
I know this is an older post but just in case others also come along in the future and find these posts and comments interesting, and sit here for a long time poring over them as I did...I will leave a comment. I was raised Amish (not anymore) but was never with any 'general run' mennonite church. For me to stand outside looking in, the mennonite people look "perfect." The ladies appear to have somewhat of an air of class that I feel I could never measure up to, and it's a little intimidating. I know of a totally non-menno lady that feels the same way. I was raised Amish, she was raised 'nothing,' but we both had the very same opinion of mennonites. I know that some mennos wouldn't want to appear that way, and I honestly do not mean this to slam them, but I feel it wouldn't hurt for them to know how they appear to some outsiders. I know there are also those that admire them and are brave enough to join them.
I was at walmart one day and noticed a totally non-menno lady with such a pure, fresh expression on her face, I knew it had to be from God. That is what the Lord is talking about when he tells us to walk in the Spirit and to let our lights shine. When I looked at that lady, I thought, "Jesus." When I see a menno, I think, "mennonite." The way we live should point people to Jesus and not draw undue attention to ourselves.
About the head covering....what head covering? Most of them are so small, and transparent, they would not be considered a covering anyway if you would walk into a church service like the ones apostle Paul preached at. They COVERED their heads, because it was their custom. (I don't think they all did, that's why Paul was trying to help them smooth things out in 1 Cor. 11) The Muslims do it right, if you're talking about a head covering! (sorry) If the hair isn't covered, who claims the authority to say how much should be covered?
A question. Did Jesus and His deciples have a set of dress standards and rules to go by so that they would look different from the world and be set apart?
The Anabaptists did not look any different from the rest of the people on the street either, so where did all this peculiar stuff start? I'm sure it's not the kind of peculiar the Lord had in mind when he says we should be a peculiar people. God's standard for clothes is modesty, having your body covered in an appropriate way. There are no patterns or instructions on how the clothes should be made.
Being worldly is a condition of the heart, not in the clothes you wear. No matter what you wear, it's of the world, because fabric and stuff simply is something in this world that we can use, same way with a horse and buggy, a car, or an airplane, there's no dif in whether one is worldly and the other not, they are equally worldly and are simply a way of transportation, nothing more, nothing less. Some churches don't allow certain colors for clothes and vehicles. What makes one color evil, and another color Godly or useful? A color is a color, if one color is bad then they're all bad. I'm out of breath now!