To any dissatisfied young Mennonites reading this who might be thinking about leaving...

1. As long as you're a Menno, either follow the rules, or look like you're following the rules when those who are older and/or more conservative are around.  Yes, you might be openly planning on leaving the MC. And yes, some of the rules are impractical, outdated, obsolete, and a major pain in the rear.  Believe me, I've been there.

But rules or no rules, one of your end goals in leaving should be this: you want to leave in such a way that you can come back to visit in the future without feeling the slightest bit uncomfortable...It may not be completely reachable, but it's what you should be aiming for.  If you have a reputation amongst the conservatives as rebel, that goes a long way in the wrong direction.

So maybe you wear shorts when you're playing basketball.  Maybe you go to the movie theater occasionally instead of waiting 3 months for the DVD to come out.  Maybe you don't follow every rule to the letter.  And that's ok.  And while it's one thing to joke about it with your friends who feel the same way you do, it's another thing to offend your elders.  Although they *might* be old, stubborn, and stuck in their ways, usually they have watched over you as you've grown up and really do love you.  And that's not something you want to throw away.

All this to say...if you're going to leave, make sure you don't burn your bridges when you go.

2. Try to have some idea of what you want in a church before you leave.  It's easy to say what you don't want...you're probably thinking you don't want rules like the ones you grew up with, which is understandable.  But what do you want?  Just because a church isn't Mennonite doesn't mean it can't still annoy the crap out of you.  Just because a church appears really cool after going there once doesn't mean it's right for you.

I church-shopped for quite awhile.  You probably will too.  It's like dating.  You don't commit to the first one on the first date...you look around, you evaluate, you decided what you can live with and what you can't.  You always keep your eyes open.  If someone recommends a church, you check it out.  And once you find a church you think you can live with, you start going there steady, every Sunday.

And go to church regularly, even if it isn't to the same church every time.  If you're like me, you need the social and spiritual interaction that comes with.  And no you won't always feel like going.  And yes you should go anyway. I've been there, believe me.

And if you want to know what I think you should look for in a church, see this post from a few months ago.

3. If you believe strongly that women should wear a covering, then you should probably stay Mennonite, no matter how you feel about any of the other rules.  The covering is just not something you find anywhere else, and you won't find a spouse who believes the same way you do if you look outside the MC. (But if you already have a spouse and you both want to leave and you both believe in the covering, then I guess you could maybe disregard this.)

There are other teachings unique to the Mennonite church, but this is the only one I can think that might be a dealbreaker. Believing strongly in something like nonresistance just doesn't have the same effect. (FWIW, I'm still a pretty big believer in nonresistance)

4. It's okay to be open about how you're planning to leave, but trust me, your life will a be a lot easier if certain people don't find out until after the fact. Been there, seen that. So be a little bit careful who you tell.

Also, being open that you're leaving is okay, but being open about leaving doesn't mean that you have to have an attitude. Like I said earlier, you don't want to burn your bridges, and a showing a nasty attitude toward the MC is a good way to do just that.

5. After you've left and found a church you like, be careful how you talk about it when your old Mennonite friends ask...basically, say whatever you want about your church, just don't compare it spiritually with the MC unless they specifically ask. It doesn't leave a very good impression. Yes, you want to say why you like your church. What you don't want to do is to turn it into a spiritual sales pitch.

6. I would love to write a piece on introducing your girl/boy friend to your Mennonite friends and family and getting her acquainted with your background...but unfortunately, I have no experience here as of yet. Sorry.

That's everything I can think of...I guess that brings this series to a close. Thoughts? Comments? Questions?

P.S. Heads up to starrsoft and anyone else who might have been wondering: I don't feel like doing more than 1 response, so I'm just going to wait a few days, then write one response in this post, in regard to the questions and comments in this post, Part 3a, and the ones in Part 2 I haven't covered yet.

Warning: this is probably the longest post I have ever written. Kudos to you if you can make through to the end.

So...this is the part where I talk about the conclusions I came too regarding my Mennonite heritage...Note that these are simply the conclusions I came to, I don't pretend to know all the answers to these things, and you can feel free to disagree at any time.

One of the central conclusions that I came to was that we, in the New Testament era, are bound by principles, not rules. Principles of loving God with all your heart, loving others the same as you love yourself, honesty, chastity, and so on.

What does that mean in practical terms? Simply this: if the Bible says something specific that has no practical reason or application today, we are not bound by that. However, that “something specific” almost always has a governing principle behind it, and that governing principle will be just as binding on us as it was to the people it was written to. It's just that the practical application will look somewhat different with in today's world than it did to the people 2000 years ago.

Example: The feet-washing ceremony. It was something that was done to imply submission, humility, showing servanthood to your brothers and sisters in Christ. And in that context, in ancient Jewish culture, it did. In our culture, in our time, it doesn't. Today, it's a symbol, and not much more...and I don't think that feetwashing, is binding on us today. If you want to do it, great. Symbols are cool, and there's nothing wrong with symbols. But it's not a requirement to being a Christian.

But the principles behind feetwashing of humbling ourselves, showing servanthood to each other, and submitting to each other? Those are completely binding on us today, and are totally part of what it means to be a follower of Christ.

And ultimately, I don't think God really cares if we're following the specific details of the Bible...He cares much more about whether or not we're following the principles behind them.

I eventually came to realize that there are two ditches people fall into, legalism and liberalism.

Legalism takes the principles of Scripture and makes checklists from them. You should or should not do this or that because that's how you should apply this verse or that one in today's world. Don't listen to rock music. Don't drink alcohol. Don't watch TV. Wear clothes that are different from the world. And so on. And while not doing those may or may not strip you of your Christianity, you won't completely measure up as a Christian if you don't do them.

Liberalism takes the principles of Scripture and ignores them. If you want to follow the Bible that's fine, but you're kind of a fool if you do. Come on man, live it up a little. Party hearty, get completely plastered, take a few chicks home for one night, have fun with life and do whatever feels right to you.

When all is said and done, I don't think that either one is worse than the other when dealing with people's souls. From what I've seen, liberalism poisons a person's heart and legalism suffocates it. I fail to see which is worse.

I'm just going to come out and say it...if you are a Mennonite, please don't take this personally.

For me, being in the Mennonite church meant that I was living under legalism.

Which leads me to my next point...one man's legalism is another man's normal way of life.  For some people, not getting tattoos and not having a TV and living by the other rules is simply what they would naturally do.  And if it's what they would naturally do, I can't really argue that they're living under legalism.  Some people thrive in the Mennonite church. If that's you, then more power to you. Some people feel like they're being suffocated.  It shouldn't come as any surprise that...I felt like I was suffocating spiritually.

Being a conservative Mennonite works for some people, but not for me...that's pretty much the long and short of it right there.

Switching gears here, I also came to some more specific conclusions regarding “the rules,” and here they are:

One is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being like the world, if what the world is doing does not violate Scriptural principles.  And so, using “the world” to say that we should or should not do something is illogical, or else we should all be Amish.

To be honest, I often felt that some were using “the world” to hang on to traditions and rules that had no other Scriptural backing.   But I'll talk a little more about that in the final post. ;)

The other conclusion was that rules of the Old Testament with no backing in the New are not binding today. The ones that were important were given as principles, and backed up by Christ (or in a few cases, the apostle Paul) in some way.   The others, they left alone.  For example, what it says in Leviticus about tattoos?  Not binding on us. Saying women shouldn't wear pants because of the Leviticus verse that says not to wear the clothes of the opposite sex? Again, that's not binding either.  If it's in the Old Testament Law and nowhere else, I don't worry about it.

And there you have it. Pretty much every rule falls under those two, or under what I wrote about being bound by principles and not rules.

All that being said, there are several issues I want cover in a little greater detail...

People ask me about the covering more than anything else, and it falls under what I said about principles versus applications.   As I see it, the application for the Corinthians was the covering, while the principle of the passage has to do with husbands showing leadership and wives showing submission.  Paul mentions those same principles in several other epistles as well, but never mentions the covering elsewhere.

Davidrmiller asked about my position regarding divorce, so I'll try do that too.  First of all, I don't believe it's quite as cut-and-dried as the Mennonite position makes it out to be...it's kind of like my old issue with the covering.   I know people who are in their second marriage and are Christians.  How that actually works, I don't know, and you can draw your own conclusions from it. All I know is that these people are Christians and their lives reflect it. I also know that they have gone through a divorce at some point, often before they were saved, and have since remarried.

I guess my position on divorce is this: if you're married, you're married.  For you to leave your spouse would be a sin against him/her and a sin against God.  But if your spouse leaves you literally or figuratively (runs off with someone else, gets really abusive, etc.) and divorces you, then remarriage later may be an option.  I don't know.  Jesus did say divorce was wrong...but left a caveat in there regarding cases of sexual immorality.

Questions? Comments?  Any issue you feel I didn't cover? Complaints?  Did you make it all the way to here?  I'll probably do like I did last time, and leave a comment clarifying or answering anything people bring up.

Is the grass really greener on the other side? Do people who leave face a greater risk of going off the deep end? Find out, when we come back. Coming up...candid advice to dissatisfied young Mennonites, and to slightly frustrated (from dealing with said YMs) older people.

So, my computer ate my next set of blog posts, and I'm left high and dry with nothing to write about.

I subsist almost entirely on Ramen Noodles, and so I decided I would start taking a multivitamin just to balance things out a bit.  I went to Winco, searched all over the place.  Finally found where they keep that sort of thing, but still couldn't find the multivitamins.  I finally found them, but I also came to the conclusion that...I don't want to get old.  I could not believe how many shelves and rows were filled with bottles of things like stool softeners, antacids, Pepto-bismol, alka-seltzer, and such.  If I ever am a senior citizen and using stool softeners on a regular basis, please shoot me.

Anyhow, as I was saying I lost my next set of blog posts.  Which is where you, the reader, come in.  I like to ask a tough question and write my thought process regarding it as I try to come up with an answer.

So I need ideas...just fire away with your toughest questions/ideas/issues or whatever.  Good ones are things that I'm not preaching to the choir on, and reasonably specific.  For example, asking what I think of the Iraq war is fine, but please don't ask how I feel about American foreign policy since the collapse of communism.  One is fine, one is to broad and to vague. 

With all that said, readers, give me your toughest questions, on religion, politics, relationships, or whatever you choose.  I'll write about as many as I can.

A bit of a followup from the list post...First of all, thanks for the feedback! I loved getting your opinions on this. I thought several things could use a little clarification though.

Several people thought that #5 and #6 didn't go together very well. To spare you the trouble of going back and checking, I want a woman who is preferably a college student, and wants to be a stay-at-home mom when the kids come.

Here's the thing: Actually, several things. First, she doesn't have to be a college student. I want someone who's reasonably smart, can think for herself, and is a decent problem-solver, and there are girls who qualify who aren't in college.  Being a college student is more one of those icing-on-the-cake things.

Second, I know for a fact that a decent percentage of college girls want to be a SAHM once they have kids. And since I know they exist, it pretty much goes without saying that I want one. Make sense? Brilliantvapor called it well, basically if she doesn't want to be SAHM then she doesn't have to marry me. Nothing personal, it's just something that's important to me. Bethkrabill noted how her mom worked part time when her kids were young, and I have no problem with that sort of setup, none zilch nada. I just don't want a career woman for a wife, and I don't want to be sticking my kids in day care centers.

About the long distance relationship thing...LDRs work for some people. But from what I've seen, LDRs don't work unless one of them ends up moving for awhile so that they can actually be together. Which is fine, but I'm years away from being able to drop everything and move across the country.  And starting a relationship, then telling her that it won't work unless she's willing to move out here doesn't seem right.

Another this is that with a normal relationship, you can ease into it. Go on a few dates, get to know each other, take it slow. If you don't know each other real well to begin with, no biggie. Just take it slow.  With a LDR, you're into it all or nothing, right from the beginning.  No easing into it.  No taking it slow.  And frankly, I'm not very comfortable with that, especially if I don't know the girl really well to begin with.  Hence, no LDRs* for me.

About the negotiableness of the list...the “icings on the cake” aren't at all necessary, they're just bonuses in case a girl happens to have them. The others...some are completely non-negotiable. She needs to be a Christian, be saving herself for marriage, and live reasonably close to me. If she doesn't qualify, she doesn't qualify.

As for the others, I'm looking for a girl who either qualifies, or is working on qualifying in those areas. If she has a huge credit card debt, but has turned her spending habits around and is working her way out of it, cool. Maybe she went from boyfriend to boyfriend to boyfriend in her late teens, but has since matured, calmed down, and is past that. Great. I can live with that. If a girl doesn't fit my list perfectly because of some past mistakes that she is now taking care of, I'm not one to be picky. The key is that if she does have some of those mistakes, she's recognized it and is taking care of them. I expect the same of myself.

*The actual distance is somewhat negotiable...in thinking about it, I might be willing to date a girl as far away as Seattle (~250 miles) if the opportunity arose.

Now the list, Part 2: What I look for in myself, in no particular order.

1. Able to provide for a family financially. If I want a wife who's a SAHM, I better be prepared to provide the finances myself. To that end, I am pursuing a degree in mechanical engineering, and graduating in about a year and a half.

2. Practice good hygiene and grooming. Girls like this in a guy, from what I've heard. Although, I do tend to slack off just a bit in the summer when I'm working in grass seed warehouses...I haven't shaved in about 3 weeks.  But you get the idea. 

3. Although I'm hopeless when it comes to fashion, I do my best.  I've heard girls like this, too. If all else fails, I ask my sisters for advice.

4. Stay in shape. If I want her to, I better do so myself. And if I want kids (which I do), it's probably not a bad idea to be able to run around with them a little bit.

5. Have a good relationship with Christ. I don't know how to quantify this in a few sentences, but I think you get the idea.

6. Be plugged into a church. Being plugged into a church gives, among other things, accountability, social interaction, and a good place to meet Christian girls, which are all things I need at this point in my life.

7. I dunno...Female readers, I need your help here! What are some general qualifications I as a guy should fulfill? If you have a list of what you're looking for in a guy, what are some of the things on it?

I keep a repository of possible xanga posts on my computer, and work on them when I have time...normally I have about 5 in there at any given time.  Here's one that's been in there for probably 6 months, and finally got to the point where I sort of finished it.

What I look for in a girl...a rough list.

1. I want a girl who's a Christian...I'm more a nondenominational type of person, and I guess I want a girl who is too. I don't care if she comes from a denominational background, as long she's willing to follow me in that.

2. Has thought through what she believes. This is a biggie. I've met far to many Christian girls who parrot a bunch of sound bites on politics, gay marriage, prayer in schools, evolution, and whatever without thinking them through, and it drives me nuts. I don't want a girl like that. I don't want a girl who just “toes the party line” on everything, be it the Baptist party line, the Republican (or Democrat) party line, or the you-name-it party line. Then again, if she's like that I might be the perfect guy to help stretch her mind out a little bit.

3. Takes care of herself. Not hugely overweight. This one is touchy, and sounds shallow. But if a girl is hugely overweight, that to me is very unattractive. If I'm not the slightest bit physically attracted to her, I probably shouldn't marry her...which in turn means I don't have any real reason to go dating her.  Kind of sad, but true. That said, it's not like she has to look like Jessica Alba. If she takes care of herself and is halfway decent-looking, then great. We're cool on that one. And for the record, I would say that at least 75-80 % of girls my age fall into the “decent-looking or better” category.

4. Knows how to handle money. Pretty much explains itself. I want a girl who isn't in a huge amount of debt (some student loans I can stomach, but please no credit card debt), and knows how to use a budget and not spend if need be.

5. Wants children and wants to be a stay-at-home mom when they come along. Again, this one pretty much explains itself.

6. Reasonably smart and has a fair amount of common sense. A college student, preferably. If she's a complete ditz...no way.  A lower IQ I think I can handle, but please not someone who's stupid.

7. Can put up with me and my eccentricities. And if you know me well, you know that there are plenty.  A girl who thinks that my eccentricities are funny and/or cute is a keeper.  A girl who finds them really annoying...well, maybe not.

8. Saving herself sexually for marriage.  If she’s a virgin, awesome, that’s icing on the cake.  If she’s saving sex for marriage now but has mistakes in her past, I’m not one to hold that against her.  Virgin or no, I think we all have regrets of some kind, be they sexual or otherwise.

9. Hasn't had a huge number of previous boyfriends.  If she's dated other guys, no biggie.  Technically I have an ex-GF too.  But if she's been going from boyfriend to boyfriend to boyfriend ever since she was a teenager, that's a great big huge red flag.

10. Lives within 100 miles of me.  I don't do long-distance relationships, period.

**edit** One more I just thought of.  For me to pursue any sort of relationship I think there needs to be some feelings there, whether I have feelings for her, vice versa, or both.  If I like a girl I'll ask her out, and if she doesn't have feelings for me I would hope she'd give a chance anyway.  If I were to find out that a girl liked me and these other 10 things checked out, I would feel the same way, where I should at least give her a chance even if I don't have feelings for her...

So those are the important ones.  Now, for the icing on the cake…if she can cook, if she has a cool family and good relationships with all of them, if she’s an ex-Menno like me, if she’s a country girl, all of those are cool little extras to have in a girl, in my book.

This is almost everything I've been able to think of.  Thoughts?  Are there any that could be added?  Any that are on here that shouldn't be?